<a href='https://moominmuppet.dreamwidth.org'>moominmuppet

A. Lee Martinez is classified as YA, though I think that's the wrong place for him. I found him much later on, only a few years ago really, but he's a very good author.

LeGuin, Tolkien, Lewis, and Nesbit made up the bulk of my early fantasy reading with Earthsea, the Hobbit and Roverandom, Narnia, and Psammead.

Little Grey Men, My Father's Dragon, where two childhood favorites that I read countless times. Apparently we each have one of them. Once I saw My Father's Dragon again this afternoon I could almost recite it. Too bad those are lousy JPEG images of the maps, you can't read them very well.

I have lots of Howard Pyle's stuff, and grew up with Wonder Clock, Salt and Pepper, and Iron Men.

I actually consider most of Xanth to be more YA as well, and I've long since outgrown that series, but it was a staple for both of us.

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heron61.livejournal.com

I actually consider most of Xanth to be more YA as well, and I've long since outgrown that series, but it was a staple for both of us.

Given the rather impressive level of misogyny in the Xanth series (as well as in pretty much everything else Piers Anthony has written), I can't see recommending them.

OTOH, I remember My Father's Dragon quite fondly - I think that may have been the first book I read with dragons in it - I read it at around 5 and still remember it.

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Then I'm surprised you're not on Howard Pyle's case.

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Probably the difference in era -- I know I'll be bothered by the attitudes toward Indians in Frances Hodgson Burnett's books, but I'm much more able to overlook it in books written a century ago than in books written relatively recently.

I do have trouble going back and rereading Anthony's stuff these days, partially because I feel about 25 years too old for the level of humor, partially because of the gender politics and other random crap. However, you're right that they were big for both of us, and there was a point in my life when bad puns about sex were the best form of humor EVER. Robert Asprin has some of the same flaws, although not anywhere near as egregiously in my opinion, and I can still have some good laughs rereading some of his stuff.

Oh, and that reminds me, as long as I'm writing about comedic SFF writers -- Terry Pratchett -- although Discworld isn't specifically YA, it's certainly generally a good choice in that direction, and there are a few related and unrelated books of his that are indeed explicitly written for the YA market. Hell, the made-for-TV movies they're releasing with PTerry's approval are certainly oriented toward all ages/YA, which I would say is additional reason to consider the entire series to be such.

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Granted there's 30 years between when Xanth premiered and what's going on now. That's a lot of time for attitudes to change. I don't know if his really have or not, but given what I've seen out of other contemporaries who started publishing in the 1970's he's not nearly the worst of the bunch for it. And it did change some by the time I got to quiting, which was in the early nineties.

Asprin plays off it differently, mostly because Skeeve is just supposed to be inept.

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*nod* It was certainly endemic to the genre, and the 70s generally weren't pretty in that regard.

Asprin does the same hypersexualized female characters, but they tend to be much more _competent_ hypersexualized female characters (largely in contrast with Skeeve), and I can work with that.

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serpentseye.livejournal.com

People keep telling me to read Heinlein, but you've pointed out a major reason I can't take much of him. I know he wrote long before queer politics became mainstream, but his attitudes regarding queers and people of other ethnicities rub me the wrong way.

YA:
The House of the Scorpion (don't remember who wrote it)
His Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman

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heron61.livejournal.com

I'd never even heard of him before.

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heron61.livejournal.com

Garth Nix's Abhorsen series is utterly wonderful (Sabriel, Lirael, and Abhorsen). Also, while not specifically YA, Rosemary Kirstein's Steerswoman books work as well as much 60s SF, except w/o the misogyny so common to SF of that era.

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Thanks; I've heard Nix's work mentioned before, I think. Definitely something I should check out.

And I picked up the Steerswoman books thanks to Teaotter's recommendation, although I'm embarrassed to admit they got shuffled in the pile and I've been one book in for much too long.

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mseuphrates.livejournal.com

Tamora Pierce's work is excellent - my daughter has pretty much every book she's written, starting with the Song of the Lioness series (which I read first and then passed along: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Song_of_the_Lioness) - the female protagonist disguises herself as a boy so she can train as a night. Good stuff. :)

Mercedes Lackey's Herald series isn't bad either (and very gay and poly friendly as such things go).

Edited Date: 2010-05-09 01:40 am (UTC)

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I've heard a lot of good things about Tamora Pierce; definitely high time I check her out.

And although I don't know if the Herald trilogy was released specifically as YA, certainly I'd say the entire Valdemar series falls comfortably within that realm. I'm a long-time fan despite all the cheesiness and fluff (or because of it, maybe -- it's "security blankie" reading for me, when I need something where even the dead folks get happy endings). I'm even willing to look the other way when Mercedes blatantly MarySues herself in her own damned series. Oy.

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Ooh, it sounds interesting; thanks!

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findingthegirl.livejournal.com

I loved both Graceling and to a lesser extent, Fire. I'd definitely recommend them. Also in the same vein are the Poison Study books by Maria V. Snyder.

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Cool; thanks!

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ticktockman.livejournal.com

I'm way out of touch with YA SF, because back when I was a young adult myself, the newish YA SF were books like The Lotus Caves by John Christopher and his White Mountains series, and it has been so long since I've read them that I can't say with any certainty whether or not they are worth reading today. Add to them the juveniles of Andre Norton.

I think the short stories of Ray Bradbury are always worth reading and re-reading, generally in small doses rather than many at once.

My idea of a newer YA SF novel is John M. Ford's Growing Up Weightless, and I do recommend it, but I just discovered it was published in 1993 so it isn't especially new -- but still much newer than the 1960s vintage items above.

Terry Pratchett's Discworld fantasies (especially the ones published in the past 15 years) are great reading and perfectly suitable for YA reading, lacking only in young protagonists. Strangely, his output in the specifically marketed YA field is not as rewarding to read.

If you're entertained by swords and sorcery, or other forms of fine fantasy, give Fritz Leiber a try.

The name I use, "Lord Brandoch Daha", is taken from a character in E.R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros. I rather think that the youth of today would toss it across the room and give up in disgust after 10 pages ... the language is finicky and there's a long introductory section that has nothing at all to do with the plot of the book, but there are heroes and villains and sword battles and magical battles and individual combat and treachery and ... well, I think this is the sort of thing that Tolkien was inspired by.

*daha*

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I'm with you on the "don't really know what's current". Much of what I did read as a Young Adult was written years (decades, even) before my time, so I'm of even less help.

Pratchett does have the Tiffany Aching books, plus The Amazing Maurice. I liked his "Johnny and the..." books.

I liked Eddison, too. There was one small bit of logic that interfered with Total Enjoyment but the books are well-written and interesting. Same with Merritt (Moon Pool, The Face in the Abyss); I suspect there is too much descriptive writing for today's Young Adult. Could be wrong.

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Oh, I just remembered Patricia McKillip, too!

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Thanks!

The Lotus Caves by John Christopher and his White Mountains series, and it has been so long since I've read them that I can't say with any certainty whether or not they are worth reading today.

*nod* I've got the full series on my shelves, but I haven't read 'em in about as long.

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findingthegirl.livejournal.com

I haven't read them yet, but my sister the librarian swears The Hunger Games trilogy by Suzanne Collins is better than Graceling, which would be pretty darn hard to top in my opinion.

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Reading the description now; sounds interesting!

Also, note to self; just remembered Artemis Fowl (uneven, but silly and engaging), and Hero

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Diane Duane's Wizardry series, starting with So You Want to Be a Wizard. It's brilliant & criminally under-read.

The problem with Xanth isn't that Piers is misogynistic (although he is), it's that he can't write. This finally dawned on me when I read Incarnations of Immortality and the Apprentice Adept series - both fantastically, brilliantly, intricately plotted series... which are horribly written.

Obviously, the Heinlein juveniles should be required reading for anybody between the ages of 13 and... well, ever.

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marnanel.livejournal.com

I agree about Diane Duane. Good strong female characters, good use of LGBT characters without making the story about being queer, and all-around damn good storytelling.

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We could also point out that Meyers, Paolini, and Rowling can't write worth a damn either. Piers writes at a level that doesn't take much effort to follow, and then he unloads a couple shotgun rounds of bad puns and fourth grade sex jokes.

"Required Reading" ruins the books. Make them available but NEVER put them on the required list. That just kills any interest the kids might have had in them.

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Paolini & Meyers, I agree with your assessment (although, not having ever been a 14-year-old girl, I will readily admit that I'm not Meyers' target audience). I actually rather like Rowling's writing, and find it pretty engaging - it stands up to rereading.

The two Piers series I mentioned (Apprentice Adept & Incarnations) don't follow the puns & sex jokes formula; they're just badly written. The plots are beautiful, with some very interesting elements and obviously well-thought out stories. But the narration & dialogue is just atrocious.

I don't mind putting good books on a required list - the Heinlein juveniles are good enough that making a kid read them is like making a kid try chocolate; odds are good (but admittedly not guaranteed) that after the first bite, they're hooked. It's when the requirements include stuff you have to slog through that it kills reading for them.

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Diane Duane's Wizardry series, starting with So You Want to Be a Wizard. It's brilliant & criminally under-read.

Thanks; I know I've heard them recommended before, but haven't had a chance to check them out yet, and they'd slipped my mind!

fantastically, brilliantly, intricately plotted series... which are horribly written.

That's my frustration -- he often played with really neat ideas, and I'm a sucker for that, and will continue to slog through long after it's ceased being truly worthwhile.

I'm so-so on Heinlein, although it's been so long since I read any of the juveniles that I don't recall whether I had less (or would now have) less problem with them than his adult stuff.

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<Gets out portable bunker labeled "for Heinlein discussion use only">

Problems such as...?

Most of the criticisms I've seen lobbed at Heinlein are on the sexism/misogyny front, and come from a lack of familiarity with his entire body of work. I firmly believe that half of the reason he wrote <i>To Sail Beyond the Sunset</i> and <i>I Will Fear No Evil</i> was to show that he could write strong female characters and strongly believed in a level of equality that was ahead of his time.

If those aren't your criticisms, please feel free to disregard the above paragraph... :-)

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The first book of his that I read was Friday, actually, so my initial introduction to his work was with a strong female lead. However, generally he seems to suffer from an inability to write female characters well. They too often seemed hyperidealized in a frustrating way. I liked a moderate amount of his stuff first time round, but very little of it made any substantial impact (except Friday, since I was 12 and she was sexy and tough). I don't loathe Heinlein like many, but I have no great fondness for him, either. He was important to the history of SF, but so were many other authors that don't really float my boat that much these days, regardless of what I understand about their overall relevance (biggest example for me? Tolkien -- he did something magnificent, but I simply don't enjoy rereading it)

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I can sort of see that - Heinlein pretty much modeled all of his female characters after his wife, to a greater or lesser extent, in the same way he modeled all of his male characters after himself, and he worshipped Ginny.

Although, to be fair, the whole point of Friday was that she was hyperidealized. One of my favorite of his characters is Hazel Stone from The Rolling Stones and later The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, who is awesome and much more human.

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She does book reviews.

A few of my favourites as a Young Adult:
Jack Vance.
Tanith Lee.
P.C. Hodgell.
Alfred, Lord Dunsany.

I'm sure I have more but my brain is fogged from tired.

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marnanel.livejournal.com

Do you know whether she'd review Borrowable if I sent her a copy?

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'Fraid I don't; she's on my reading list as a rec from somewhere else, not because we know each other.

You could probably just ask her... :D

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heron61 got me into P.C. Hodgell a few years ago; that's a good idea.

I think I struggle with where to draw the distinction of YA vs adult fiction, since I never really recognized the distinction myself when I was reading as a teen. I certainly particularly enjoyed reading about folks my own age or a little older, but that wasn't any kind of set-in-stone constant, either.

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jttbear.livejournal.com

I certainly loved the Heinlein juveniles, although for the most part they do reflect the idea that only boys would be interested in science fiction. I do remember enjoying his attempt at a female lead in "Podkayne of Mars."
I too never distinguished between YA and adult SciFi and fantasy. I read both the "Chronicles of Narnia" and "The Hobbit" when I was 8. I didn't read "LOTR" until I was around 11, which was around the same time my step-father gave me Asimov's "Caves of Steel." After that I devoured every Asimov and Heinlein in the school and later county library. Heinlein also steered me to E.E. "Doc" Smith's Lensman series, which is a bit dated but I think would be fine for younger readers, although the gender politics definitely reflect the times it was written in.

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Asimov was definitely an early/mid-teen read for me, as was Dune. So much of what I read was totally random -- just working my way through whatever was in the SF/F section of our local library. I did discover Spider Robinson when I was about 12, and fell in love with his view of the world. Oh, and I was a sucker for anything with dragons in. That reminds me, Mercedes Lackey's Joust series would probably count as YA, too (although it didn't exist back then). Hmmm. Amazon doesn't think it's YA, so it doesn't seem to have been marketed that direction. Too bad.

Oh, and another series from that time period just jumped to mind -- Stasheff's Warlock series.

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Again, because I feel compelled to come to RAH's defense...

The juveniles reflect that idea because they were marketed to 11-15-year-old-boys in a time when you could not market YA fiction to more than one gender. In "Expanded Universe," Heinlein recounted a discussion with an editor who complained of the lack of good YA fiction for girls, and as a result, he created "Maureen," the central character in what he intended to be a series of girls' YA stories. Nobody picked them up because nobody believed that "Rocketship" Heinlein could write for girls.

So, he retired Maureen unused (but for the one short in "Expanded Universe"), changed her name to Podkayne, and moved her to Mars. True story.

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